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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
$4.5 for regular average price and more than $6 for regular in California. It keeps climbing up.
I sometimes wonder if a person in Hyundai responsible for making a 3.8GDI standard engine instead of a hybrid is fired long time ago or just recently?
 

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I'm glad he or she wasn't fired. I like my big V6 engine, in fact a big V8 would be even better.

The money-printing politicians, and the bought-and-paid-for media which covers for them, not so much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
I'm glad he or she wasn't fired. I like my big V6 engine, in fact a big V8 would be even better.

The money-printing politicians, and the bought-and-paid-for media which covers for them, not so much.
We as Canadians pay even more at pump vs our south neighbor. $8 CAD per gallon. Still going up and up with no slow down in near future.
I sometimes wonder how much higher it has to go for people like you to change their mind?
What amount of money will change your mind? Average Canadian Palisade owner (driving 10k miles a year) pays $3800 CAD a year for gas only. If he/she keeps it for 10 years - that’s $38,000 CAD in fuel only. If price increases even more (highly likely) then you are looking at $40k to $50k over 10 years on fuel only. That’s definitely NOT normal.
This is a casual soccer mom 3-row suv we are talking about, not some Genesis or let alone Mercedes or Porsche.
 

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We as Canadians pay even more at pump vs our south neighbor. $8 CAD per gallon. Still going up and up with no slow down in near future.
I sometimes wonder how much higher it has to go for people like you to change their mind?
What amount of money will change your mind? Average Canadian Palisade owner (driving 10k miles a year) pays $3800 CAD a year for gas only. If he/she keeps it for 10 years - that’s $38,000 CAD in fuel only. If price increases even more (highly likely) then you are looking at $40k to $50k over 10 years on fuel only. That’s definitely NOT normal.
This is a casual soccer mom 3-row suv we are talking about, not some Genesis or let alone Mercedes or Porsche.
"People like me" don't need convincing that gas prices are inflated. We already know that, and we deal with it as best we can. We drive only what we can afford, we own shares of Big Oil in our portfolios, we vote at the ballot box, and we occasionally rant about it all.

Are "people like you" really that different?
 

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No offense taken. Ok, I'll try to explain, let me put it this way. Yesterday I overheard discussion on radio about rising gas prices and business analytics are predicting $2 per liter gas price very soon, they said in 2 weeks in Canada. It's related to ongoing Russia/Ukraine conflict, but on top of that they listed many other things too. As a fellow Canadian I think you already know we are paying on average more for gas than in states. If prices hit predicted $2 per liter - that's about $7.7 per gallon - for US folks to understand what I'm talking about. We might be very soon (couple weeks) paying for a tank of gas $140. If commuting person fills up once a week - that's $640 per month for gas only. So that's one aspect of looking at it.
Here's another: when there is a competitor like Highlander Hybrid with 35/36mpg that also weighs a 4000 pounds and is also a brick, just like Palisade, naturally one starts to wonder why we can't have hybrid too? Also I don't see a cost of vehicle directly linked to cost of filling it up. At least not anymore. If anything it's opposite nowadays: the more you pay the better specs and MPG is. For example Volvo XC90 Hybrid costs more, but has better MPG. Highlander Hybrid costs slightly more in similar trims, but has immensely better mpg. Tesla Model X costs waaaay more and yet has best mpg so to speak. I hope you see what I'm saying. When paying more nowadays people expect better engineering, better mpg. I do agree however, that we are very conditioned by past experience when expensive Denali behemoth or Lexus LX/GX SUVs had horrible mpg while costing an arm and a leg. But things have changed. At least in my opinion man. Just saying
It's interesting that I came across your post as I'm in the middle of getting a new family vehicle. We're a family of 5 and the Highlander's third-row just won't work for us, so I've been debating between Hyundai Palisade and Toyota Sienna Hybrid AWD. I used to own multiple Honda cars however after 2 MDX's I cannot live without AWD - so that eliminated the Honda Odyssey and Kia Carnival.
Anyway, I really want the Palisade but the Sienna's fuel efficiency is not easy to ignore. Still undecided at this point. Sienna would take at least a year while the Palisade would be much shorter (around 6 months) for me to get the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
It's interesting that I came across your post as I'm in the middle of getting a new family vehicle. We're a family of 5 and the Highlander's third-row just won't work for us, so I've been debating between Hyundai Palisade and Toyota Sienna Hybrid AWD. I used to own multiple Honda cars however after 2 MDX's I cannot live without AWD - so that eliminated the Honda Odyssey and Kia Carnival.
Anyway, I really want the Palisade but the Sienna's fuel efficiency is not easy to ignore. Still undecided at this point. Sienna would take at least a year while the Palisade would be much shorter (around 6 months) for me to get the car.
Sienna is undoubtedly more futureproof choice fuel prices wise. It is also much more spacious and can accommodate 7-8 people WITH their luggage, while Palisade can’t do that. Sienna’s 3-rd row is much larger as well. Sliding doors are huge advantage for families in general and during tight parking spots and for kids and elderly and for ease of carrying large items in and out (including car seats). Sienna can also haul a lot more stuff inside (even with non removable 2-nd row). It does come with AWD.
Really the only cons against Palisade are:
1. Lower ground clearance
2. Minivan looks - stigma of van
3. Slightly slower 0-60 (important to some people)

Safety, technology and reliability wise Sienna is no worse than Palisade and in some cases even better: for example I would put Sienna slightly ahead in reliability and technology options like wide screen for rear passengers, ottoman seats for 2-nd row etc.

My first choice was Sienna but wife chose Palisade to avoid minivan stigma. I think that’s what majority of decisions come to nowadays. 🤷‍♂️
 

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Sienna is undoubtedly more futureproof choice fuel prices wise. It is also much more spacious and can accommodate 7-8 people WITH their luggage, while Palisade can’t do that. Sienna’s 3-rd row is much larger as well. Sliding doors are huge advantage for families in general and during tight parking spots and for kids and elderly and for ease of carrying large items in and out (including car seats). Sienna can also haul a lot more stuff inside (even with non removable 2-nd row). It does come with AWD.
Really the only cons against Palisade are:
1. Lower ground clearance
2. Minivan looks - stigma of van
3. Slightly slower 0-60 (important to some people)

Safety, technology and reliability wise Sienna is no worse than Palisade and in some cases even better: for example I would put Sienna slightly ahead in reliability and technology options like wide screen for rear passengers, ottoman seats for 2-nd row etc.

My first choice was Sienna but wife chose Palisade to avoid minivan stigma. I think that’s what majority of decisions come to nowadays. 🤷‍♂️
Especially the 2023 Palisade has heated third-row, digital rear mirror, massage driver seat, larger touch-screen, etc. We lived through the car-seat phase with 3 kids on 2 Acura MDX's so I don't think we would require the generous space of the Sienna however its fuel efficiency is just so tempting, with the way gas price is going nowadays. Thanks for bringing up a very interesting discussion topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
Especially the 2023 Palisade has heated third-row, digital rear mirror, massage driver seat, larger touch-screen, etc. We lived through the car-seat phase with 3 kids on 2 Acura MDX's so I don't think we would require the generous space of the Sienna however its fuel efficiency is just so tempting, with the way gas price is going nowadays. Thanks for bringing up a very interesting discussion topic.
Yes there are some differences (not sure if all things will make it to Canadian Palisade), some similarities too (Sienna also has digital rear view mirror and larger touch screen in platinum trim).
Fuel difference is about 4.5 to 10 liters per 100km depending if you drive on highway or in heavy stop and go city traffic. That’s about $9 to $20 CAD for every 100km. Or about $117 to $260 CAD per month if you drive about 1300km per month. Multiply that by 60 if you plan to keep it for 5 years or 120 if for 10 years.
 

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Yes there are some differences (not sure if all things will make it to Canadian Palisade), some similarities too (Sienna also has digital rear view mirror and larger touch screen in platinum trim).
Fuel difference is about 4.5 to 10 liters per 100km depending if you drive on highway or in heavy stop and go city traffic. That’s about $9 to $20 CAD for every 100km. Or about $117 to $260 CAD per month if you drive about 1300km per month. Multiply that by 60 if you plan to keep it for 5 years or 120 if for 10 years.
From what I've read so far, the Palisade specs have been consistent between US and Canada. It's funny how many people struggle with the idea of buying a minivan instead of an SUV, while I'm having a hard time in convincing myself to buy non-Japanese auto-brand. We, human, are never not comfortable with changes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
From what I've read so far, the Palisade specs have been consistent between US and Canada. It's funny how many people struggle with the idea of buying a minivan instead of an SUV, while I'm having a hard time in convincing myself to buy non-Japanese auto-brand. We, human, are never not comfortable with changes.
A sign from universe to not buy Palisade? “Marginal” Rating for Side Impact by IIHS

Somebody just posted a new safety crash test. Suddenly Sienna looks much more attractive 😂

But jokes aside, I’m bummed that my wife now is driving a not safe suv. That on top of no hybrid option for Palisade. Well we are too much invested into Palisade now (winter set of tires, tint, mats, accessories, extended warranty, etc) so we’ll have to drive it for next 5-6 years pretending to not think about possible t bone crash and pelvis fracture and disability that might follow. On the bright side, who cares if she’s going to poop in a bag for the rest of her life when we’ll get a disability check. Yay!
 

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A sign from universe to not buy Palisade? “Marginal” Rating for Side Impact by IIHS

Somebody just posted a new safety crash test. Suddenly Sienna looks much more attractive 😂
Thanks for posting this. Perhaps it was a sign from universe that I came across your post in the first place. This was what happened to my Acura MDX 2011 and luckily none of my family members was in the car at the time. Was this safety test performed in the Palisade when it was introduced in 2020?
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
Thanks for posting this. Perhaps it was a sign from universe that I came across your post in the first place. This was what happened to my Acura MDX 2011 and luckily none of my family members was in the car at the time. Was this safety test performed in the Palisade when it was introduced in 2020?
We can both research it. I don’t know yet. This was just posted and I’m surprised to be honest. I think in 2019/2020 iihs did standard test and results were good, but I think this was done recently and they made test more rigorous. They are saying it’s now as if a truck collides to you and impact is higher. So maybe that’s why Palisade dropped to marginal side impact score.
I just know that side impact is very important because 25% of fatalities happen in side impact crashes.
 

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We can both research it. I don’t know yet. This was just posted and I’m surprised to be honest. I think in 2019/2020 iihs did standard test and results were good, but I think this was done recently and they made test more rigorous. They are saying it’s now as if a truck collides to you and impact is higher.
I see large pickup trucks and full-size SUV's on the road all the time. So it's important to know that your vehicle would be safe for your family if someone ever t-boned you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
I see large pickup trucks and full-size SUV's on the road on the time. So it's important to know that your vehicle would be safe for your family if someone ever t-boned you.
That’s true, especially for North America. Trucks are #1 selling vehicles (I have no idea how people afford and deal with fuel prices, but they still buy trucks like there’s no tomorrow).
The only reassuring thing is that this was probably worst case scenario to have a perfect 90 degree t bone collision with a truck t boning you. And even then they are saying it’s possible a pelvic fracture for a driver. So chances are driver can get away with no serious harm. I know I sound pathetic, but I paid $50k for Palisade and my wife is driving it. I need someone to lie to me and tell me it’s not that bad.
 

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Yes there are some differences (not sure if all things will make it to Canadian Palisade), some similarities too (Sienna also has digital rear view mirror and larger touch screen in platinum trim).
Fuel difference is about 4.5 to 10 liters per 100km depending if you drive on highway or in heavy stop and go city traffic. That’s about $9 to $20 CAD for every 100km. Or about $117 to $260 CAD per month if you drive about 1300km per month. Multiply that by 60 if you plan to keep it for 5 years or 120 if for 10 years.
Don't know where you're getting your difference of 10 liters per 100Km from. The Palisade has a city mileage of 12.3 L/100Km and a highway of 9.6/100Km for a 11.1 L/`00km combined, while for the Sienna it's about 6.6L/100Km (6.5 for FWD and 6.7 for AWD), so the difference should be 3.0 - 5.7, so for an ave gas of $2.10 CAD per liter, and for every 100Km, it costs $6.3 - 12 dollars more to fill up the Palisade tank. For 2 drivers, one doing 650Km per month (that'll be me), that'll cost additional $41-78 bucks per year (or $2460 - 4680 for a 5 year of ownership); the driver that does 1300Km per month, it's cost additional $62 - 156 per month (or $3100 - 9360 for 5 years of ownership). This math assumes gasoline price will remain elevated at above $2 CAD per Liter for the next 5 or 10 years, which is not realistic or predictable at the moment. At the moment, the top trim of Sienna Limited ( MSRP $59,300 CAD)and Palisade Calligraphy ( MRSP$55,050 CAD) has a price difference of about $4250 so for driver that drives mainly on the highway, there is not fuel advantage if the ownership lasts only 5 years (for example, if leasing), at 1300Km per year, for such a driver it comes down to family needs and personal preferences. For the driver that does ave of 650Km per month at 50:50 city/highway driving, over a 5 year of ownership, the additional fuel cost to fill up (assuming fuel price stays at an unrealistic $2.1 per liter) is about $3570 CAD which is more than offset by the MSRP differential. Yeah, those keeping their vehicles for 10 years or more and drive a lot (e.g over 1500 KM per month), it'll hurt at the pumps. For those that drive less than 500 KM per month and only keep their vehicles for 5-7 years or less, it's not really a big deal fuel-economy wise.
 

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Don't know where you're getting your difference of 10 liters per 100Km from. The Palisade has a city mileage of 12.3 L/100Km and a highway of 9.6/100Km for a 11.1 L/`00km combined, while for the Sienna it's about 6.6L/100Km (6.5 for FWD and 6.7 for AWD), so the difference should be 3.0 - 5.7, so for an ave gas of $2.10 CAD per liter, and for every 100Km, it costs $6.3 - 12 dollars more to fill up the Palisade tank. For 2 drivers, one doing 650Km per month (that'll be me), that'll cost additional $41-78 bucks per year (or $2460 - 4680 for a 5 year of ownership); the driver that does 1300Km per month, it's cost additional $62 - 156 per month (or $3100 - 9360 for 5 years of ownership). This math assumes gasoline price will remain elevated at above $2 CAD per Liter for the next 5 or 10 years, which is not realistic or predictable at the moment. At the moment, the top trim of Sienna Limited ( MSRP $59,300 CAD)and Palisade Calligraphy ( MRSP$55,050 CAD) has a price difference of about $4250 so for driver that drives mainly on the highway, there is not fuel advantage if the ownership lasts only 5 years (for example, if leasing), at 1300Km per year, for such a driver it comes down to family needs and personal preferences. For the driver that does ave of 650Km per month at 50:50 city/highway driving, over a 5 year of ownership, the additional fuel cost to fill up (assuming fuel price stays at an unrealistic $2.1 per liter) is about $3570 CAD which is more than offset by the MSRP differential. Yeah, those keeping their vehicles for 10 years or more and drive a lot (e.g over 1500 KM per month), it'll hurt at the pumps. For those that drive less than 500 KM per month and only keep their vehicles for 5-7 years or less, it's not really a big deal fuel-economy wise.
According to Hyundai and Toyota Web sites, MSRP for Palisade Calligraphy is $57,055 and MSRP for Sienna Limited AWD is $59,290, so the price difference is $2,235.For 2023, Sienna is a carry-over so price increase is possible however should not be significant, however Palisade receives some updates so its price will definitely increase a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
Don't know where you're getting your difference of 10 liters per 100Km from. The Palisade has a city mileage of 12.3 L/100Km and a highway of 9.6/100Km for a 11.1 L/`00km combined, while for the Sienna it's about 6.6L/100Km (6.5 for FWD and 6.7 for AWD), so the difference should be 3.0 - 5.7, so for an ave gas of $2.10 CAD per liter, and for every 100Km, it costs $6.3 - 12 dollars more to fill up the Palisade tank. For 2 drivers, one doing 650Km per month (that'll be me), that'll cost additional $41-78 bucks per year (or $2460 - 4680 for a 5 year of ownership); the driver that does 1300Km per month, it's cost additional $62 - 156 per month (or $3100 - 9360 for 5 years of ownership). This math assumes gasoline price will remain elevated at above $2 CAD per Liter for the next 5 or 10 years, which is not realistic or predictable at the moment. At the moment, the top trim of Sienna Limited ( MSRP $59,300 CAD)and Palisade Calligraphy ( MRSP$55,050 CAD) has a price difference of about $4250 so for driver that drives mainly on the highway, there is not fuel advantage if the ownership lasts only 5 years (for example, if leasing), at 1300Km per year, for such a driver it comes down to family needs and personal preferences. For the driver that does ave of 650Km per month at 50:50 city/highway driving, over a 5 year of ownership, the additional fuel cost to fill up (assuming fuel price stays at an unrealistic $2.1 per liter) is about $3570 CAD which is more than offset by the MSRP differential. Yeah, those keeping their vehicles for 10 years or more and drive a lot (e.g over 1500 KM per year), itll hurt at the pumps. For those that drive less than 500 KM per month and only keep their vehicles for 5-7 years or less, it's not really a big deal fuel-econmy wise.
I agree in general with your logic. Just couple things I disagree. 10 liter difference comes from my factual experience with Palisade driving it in city stop and go traffic - I usually get 18L/100km. I never ever had 12L/100km in heavy city traffic. We both know how EPA city portion of testing is done - it’s nowhere near real conditions. While Sienna hybrid in same scenario constantly gets better than EPA estimates, because that’s where hybrids shine in city heavy traffic.
Another thing I want to point out is that I think not only fuel prices will never go below $2 per liter for next 10 years but they most probably will go much higher. $3 per liter on average over next 10 years might be actually not the worst scenario.
However, I do agree with you that if one drives only 650km (480miles) per month and keeps car no longer than 5 years - then there is not much benefit in fuel savings to worry about.
 

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According to Hyundai and Toyota Web sites, MSRP for Palisade Calligraphy is $57,055 and MSRP for Sienna Limited AWD is $59,290, so the price difference is $2,235.For 2023, Sienna is a carry-over so price increase is possible however should not be significant, however Palisade receives some updates so its price will definitely increase a bit.
The MSRP for the Sienna does not include Freight, fees and levies. If you factor these in, it comes to $61,311 (see link to Toyota Canada build below). Whichever way you slice it, the price differential is still about $4250. Hyundai is typically more sensitive to price increases year-over-year than Toyota so I expect the price differntial to increase from 2022MY >>> 2023MY.

 

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I agree in general with your logic. Just couple things I disagree. 10 liter difference comes from my factual experience with Palisade driving it in city stop and go traffic - I usually get 18L/100km. I never ever had 12L/100km in heavy city traffic. We both know how EPA city portion of testing is done - it’s nowhere near real conditions. While Sienna hybrid in same scenario constantly gets better than EPA estimates, because that’s where hybrids shine in city heavy traffic.
Another thing I want to point out is that I think not only fuel prices will never go below $2 per liter for next 10 years but they most probably will go much higher. $3 per liter on average over next 10 years might be actually not the worst scenario.
However, I do agree with you that if one drives only 650km (480miles) per month and keeps car no longer than 5 years - then there is not much benefit in fuel savings to worry about.
I agree that the Sienna wil fare better and more close to the projected mileage in the Summer. Not in the winter and not for a lead-footer or aggressive driving, there are lots of anecdotes for sub-par mileage for the Sienna during the fall/winters/spring seasons as low as 24mpg (see fuelly.com numbers for actual reported numbers), so it is not possble to guessestimate the actual differences, we can only go with the theoretical projected EPA numbers.

 

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The MSRP for the Sienna does not include Freight, fees and levies. If you factor these in, it comes to $61,311 (see link to Toyota Canada build below). Whichever way you slice it, the price differential is still about $4250. Hyundai is typically more sensitive to price increases year-over-year than Toyota so I expect the price differntial to increase from 2022MY >>> 2023MY.

From everything that I've been able to do, either by using official Web sites or talking to dealerships, apple-to-apple the Sienna always come up to the same as the Palisade. It's a small point so no worries. The Palisade competes directly with the Highlander which is more slightly expensive than the Sienna.
 
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