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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was driving in snow the other day and after the night fall, I felt that the highway lights were dimmer than usual. After coming home, got out and noticed snow accumulated on the headlights. (Won't go into HDA, there is a separate thread for this) This is going to be a problem for those live with snow during the winter. Thought I would share what I observed.
 

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I was driving in snow the other day and after the night fall, I felt that the highway lights were dimmer than usual. After coming home, got out and noticed snow accumulated on the headlights. (Won't go into HDA, there is a separate thread for this) This is going to be a problem for those live with snow during the winter. Thought I would share what I observed.
Haven't driven in too much snow but I didn't notice anything with the lights when I did.

However, why would you want it to go into HDA with snow on the road? That's a bigger issue right there if it was tracking bad lane lines covered in snow. The times I have driven in snow, LFA,LKA, HDA obviously wouldn't activate as expected since it can see the lines. Now, I did have one time where the roads were completely clear and LFA wouldn't work and come to find out, it was because of frost on the top of the window covering the camera. It took about 15 min with defrost on and driving into the sun for it to clear and activate.

Anyways, so there is no problem in the snow with these sensors because they SHOULDN'T be used anyways in those conditions. Manual also states this as well.
 

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Nux guru, you raise an interesting point about your experience with snow accumulation on your headlights. Do you suspect under similar conditions with your past vehicles that this may not have been an issue? I have wondered about this since LED lights typically operate cooler. The heat generated by the headlight bulbs can be very beneficial in snowy or slushy driving conditions. I am retired now, and with current Covid restrictions I have not experienced the conditions that that you noted. I have only had the Palisade since October. My last vehicle that I drove in the winter had HID lights, and I can only recall snow/ slush build up on a couple occasions and these were very poor winter conditions. My vehicles with halogens also did a good job keeping the snow melted
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi, this is my first vehicle with LED headlights. I never had this issues before. Like you said, the heat generated by the light has melted film of ice or snow ony previous vehicles I owned. I did some research and stumbled on discussions on methods to remove snow accumulated on LED headlights. (Pros and cons of wiper vs. pressured wiper fluid)

I think the newer vehicles have moved on from miniature wipers to pressured water cleaning system, but people's gripe is around plastic covers not able to withstand aerodynamic of highspeed driving and flying away, using too much fuild and inability to independently trigger cleaning.

I guess there is no easy answer here? I don't think it is possible to embed heat coil to the plastic casing...
 

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I agree with you in that there doesnt appear to be an economic engineering/design fix for this potential issue and it only impacts people who must drive in winter conditions. On a somewhat related note on LED automotive lights in general, I also question reliability of these units of vehicles with over 100,000 miles and/ or 10 years of operation. Replacement costs are quite high.
 

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I also question reliability of these units of vehicles with over 100,000 miles and/ or 10 years of operation. Replacement costs are quite high.
Why are you questioning it exactly? LEDs have a lifespan that's not infinite, of course, but it's several times that of a halogen bulb. For a lot of people, they will last the life of the vehicle. Even if they don't, they may need replaced once, as opposed to halogens that, while cheaper, would need replaced several times throughout the life of the vehicle. The cost likely evens out.
 

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While I don’t have automotive headlamp reliability data, I do have experience with commercial grade industrial lighting systems, and LED fixtures definitely had a higher failure rate than the previous systems. I have spoken to other subject matter experts in lighting who have similar experience and have backed this up with data to support. Automotive headlights can be exposed to some pretty challenging environmental conditions with respect to temperature, vibration, humidity, salt, etc. Typically they are integrated systems so a simple and cheap bulb change is not possible. Correct me if I am wrong....if a headlight goes out on our Palisade, a complete replacement of this lighting assembly is required. Not a cheap task and well beyond cost of even multiple halogen light bulb changes. Heck, I changed the bulbs once on the HID system of my last vehicle, a Lincoln for under $50.

So yes, to summarize, while I respect the engineering that has gone into this remarkable lighting system, I do have questions about long term reliability and potential costs. Again I am talking about greater than 100k miles or 10 years, which is beyond the ownership of an an average owner.
 

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10 years from now the costs of LED headlights will be pennies. Will the laser lights take over?

The lidar cover froze up for me today in the DC area. Prevented the front collision avoidance system from operating until cleared. They really need to put defroster technology in these areas to include the headlights. Heated antifreeze, defrosting wires, vibration technology exists too. Will try RainX to see if that helps.
 

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10 years from now the costs of LED headlights will be pennies. Will the laser lights take over?

The lidar cover froze up for me today in the DC area. Prevented the front collision avoidance system from operating until cleared. They really need to put defroster technology in these areas to include the headlights. Heated antifreeze, defrosting wires, vibration technology exists too. Will try RainX to see if that helps.
You know I haven't changed a lightbulb in my car for I have no idea how long. I just don't think it will be an issue but who knows.

Regarding the FCA, well that one was already debated on another thread, not sure if I want to start that one again. ;)
 

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Blutob, well if you don’t think that this will be an issue, then that is more than good enough for me. How is your job of putting Ferrari emblems on your Honda going? 😂
Haha! BTW, you're missing the 2 in my name, B2 is the important piece...;)

Sure it can be an issue if you rely on the system. Me on the other hand, if weather is crap, I'll keep greater distance and try and not hit anything. You think this system would have made a difference in the 70 car pile up in Ft Worth? Maybe, IDK.

But sure if I lived in the frozen tundra and never saw the grass for 6-9 months then maybe I would also want my systems to work. I did live in ND for several years, you all can keep that white crap!
 

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But sure if I lived in the frozen tundra and never saw the grass for 6-9 months then maybe I would also want my systems to work. I did live in ND for several years, you all can keep that white crap!
Hey, when you live in the best country in the world, some Snow and cold is worth the price. Frozen tundra.....come on. 😏
 

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You think this system would have made a difference in the 70 car pile up in Ft Worth?
I think they would have made a difference. The lidar can see through some fog and snow, and newer iterations will only make their vision and response time greater in adverse conditions. If they implement something that emits a beacon these types of events can be eliminated altogether. The Waze icons might actually control your vehicle in the future. They have it for the ocean, would make sense on the interstates.
 

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I think they would have made a difference. The lidar can see through some fog and snow, and newer iterations will only make their vision and response time greater in adverse conditions. If they implement something that emits a beacon these types of events can be eliminated altogether. The Waze icons might actually control your vehicle in the future. They have it for the ocean, would make sense on the interstates.
Not sure where you're getting LiDAR from, that's a different technology and I'm certain it's not on the Palisade. It's mainly being developed for self-driving cars. Ours just use a basic radar and the camera at the top of the windshield.

But seriously if you have a reference that we have the LiDAR, please post but I don't think we do.
 

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Not sure where you're getting LiDAR from, that's a different technology and I'm certain it's not on the Palisade. It's mainly being developed for self-driving cars. Ours just use a basic radar and the camera at the top of the windshield.

But seriously if you have a reference that we have the LiDAR, please post but I don't think we do.
Lidar, radar, schmadar.. :) ..what is the difference. Palisade’s adaptive cruise is “radar” based. Was just talking about the tech in general.

If you want to get technical they are both really the same thing. One is “light” the other is “radio”, they are both electromagnetic waves that get beamed out, bounced back and a picture drawn so a computer can make decisions from the image’s creation. Each signal can be tuned to go further, be more focused, penetrate more deeply or not depending on the application.

The sensors and transmitters have just been too expensive, too big, or not sensitive enough for a good while.

The new iPhone 12 uses lidar, so they might as well call it Edar, Electromagnetic Detection and Ranging, at this point because the tech will be ubiquitous going forward as the costs drop substantially!

Did not mean to mislead with the lidar comment, just wanted to point out that a basic edar signal like the Palisade would definitely help in adverse weather conditions...and the more diverse the set of emitters on a vehicle, the better the picture and the quicker the reaction time for an alert or auto braking in white out, black out or anything in between.
 

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Lidar, radar, schmadar.. :) ..what is the difference. Palisade’s adaptive cruise is “radar” based. Was just talking about the tech in general.

If you want to get technical they are both really the same thing. One is “light” the other is “radio”, they are both electromagnetic waves that get beamed out, bounced back and a picture drawn so a computer can make decisions from the image’s creation. Each signal can be tuned to go further, be more focused, penetrate more deeply or not depending on the application.

The sensors and transmitters have just been to expensive, too big, or not sensitive enough for a good while.

The new iPhone 12 uses lidar, so they might as well call it Edar, Electromagnetic Detection and Ranging, at this point because the tech will be ubiquitous going forward as the costs drop substantially!

Did not mean to mislead with the lidar comment, just wanted to point out that a basic edar signal like the Palisade would definitely help in adverse weather conditions...and the more diverse the set of emitters on a vehicle, the better the picture and the quicker the reaction time for an alert or auto breaking in white out, black out or anything in between.
Trust me I know a lot about Radar...just pointing out it's completely different technology but yes achieves the same overall objective. LiDAR is still more expensive and requires more moving parts than the tried and true traditional radar.

Ultimately back to the initial discussion, I'm not sure Hyundai's intentions for not adding the ability to ensure the sensors remain clear and usable in adverse weather. For now, I will always be in the mindset of driving my own car and not rely on additional safety features in adverse weather.

I watched the horrific scene in Ft Worth and it appeared multiple vehicles were braking (obviously not early enough) but sliding on the black ice. The scene of the FedEx truck was absolutely horrifying and heartbreaking. Could this technology help alleviate that, I hope so, but it would have to be engineered to look at a greater distance to start braking early. Heck in my daily driving I use the lowest vehicle to vehicle distance (1) because the longer setting is way to early for me so maybe that would be useful in adverse weather. However is that automated? Not currently and if I use 1 for daily driving then I need to be mindful and increase the distance in bad weather.

Part of me thinks Hyundai did it to cover their own butt and it's in the manual too. If people rely on this technology to save them in all conditions then accidents will still happen. People will still have the lowest setting set and not change it and the vehicle will still not autobrake in time. Now by all means I know the impact will be of less severity because I'm sure it will beat the human reaction everytime.
 

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I think a simple fix would be that any time you are on an interstate, and your car, truck or rig drops below 35, it emits a brick wall signal out the rear so that traffic from behind can translate the edar signal into an alarm inside the vehicle, when they approach 200-300 meters of the “brick wall” signal. This would solve these yearly pileups that occur.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Lidar, radar, schmadar.. :) ..what is the difference. Palisade’s adaptive cruise is “radar” based. Was just talking about the tech in general.

If you want to get technical they are both really the same thing. One is “light” the other is “radio”, they are both electromagnetic waves that get beamed out, bounced back and a picture drawn so a computer can make decisions from the image’s creation. Each signal can be tuned to go further, be more focused, penetrate more deeply or not depending on the application.

The sensors and transmitters have just been to expensive, too big, or not sensitive enough for a good while.

The new iPhone 12 uses lidar, so they might as well call it Edar, Electromagnetic Detection and Ranging, at this point because the tech will be ubiquitous going forward as the costs drop substantially!

Did not mean to mislead with the lidar comment, just wanted to point out that a basic edar signal like the Palisade would definitely help in adverse weather conditions...and the more diverse the set of emitters on a vehicle, the better the picture and the quicker the reaction time for an alert or auto breaking in white out, black out or anything in between.
I am pretty sure Palisade uses camera for lateral movements in the HDA system.
 
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