[ro_bro]

I have the SEL with convenience package, and it doesn't have 'highway drive assist' which seems like a semi self-driving feature that I would actually consider using. It just seems to use the existing lane keeping and smart cruise control feature combined, which my car has.

But I don't see it in the menu - and was wondering if it's something that can be activated by the dealer afterwards.

 

[Eric2203]

I have the SEL with convenience package, and it doesn't have 'highway drive assist' which seems like a semi self-driving feature that I would actually consider using. It just seems to use the existing lane keeping and smart cruise control feature combined, which my car has.

But I don't see it in the menu - and was wondering if it's something that can be activated by the dealer afterwards.

All HDA does is automatically change your speed to that of the road you're driving on, as long as it's a highway that the system has speed-limit data for in the navigation database, and as long as you have the cruise control on, and set exactly to the speed limit of the road you're on. It doesn't do anything else and if you want to drive a little above the speed limit, it won't be activated. It requires data from the navigation, which is why it's not available on cars without it.

In my personal opinion, it's not that useful unless you're driving on a long road trip, you stay on interstates and you're on roads you don't know very well and you're afraid of missing a speed limit change. The fact that you can't add an offset to it to drive slightly above the speed limit makes it fairly useless to me, as the rest of the traffic is inevitably driving faster than the speed limit anyway.

You're thinking of the lane-following assist system that all Palisades have.

 

[ro_bro]

All HDA does is automatically change your speed to that of the road you're driving on, as long as it's a highway that the system has speed-limit data for in the navigation database, and as long as you have the cruise control on, and set exactly to the speed limit of the road you're on. It doesn't do anything else and if you want to drive a little above the speed limit, it won't be activated. It requires data from the navigation, which is why it's not available on cars without it.

In my personal opinion, it's not that useful unless you're driving on a long road trip, you stay on interstates and you're on roads you don't know very well and you're afraid of missing a speed limit change. The fact that you can't add an offset to it to drive slightly above the speed limit makes it fairly useless to me, as the rest of the traffic is inevitably driving faster than the speed limit anyway.

You're thinking of the lane-following assist system that all Palisades have.

Thank you for those details, that was helpful.

 

[saxman242]

There is some debate about the validity of that statement. The highway speeds mapping is certainly part of hda, but is mentioned specifically as only part of it.

There seem to be other parts of this than just that, such as how long the car will sit in traffic not moving and then start going again.

The manual and Hyundai's advertisement does a HORRIBLE job of differentiating the features here.

 

[Eric2203]

There is some debate about the validity of that statement. The highway speeds mapping is certainly part of hda, but is mentioned specifically as only part of it.

There seem to be other parts of this than just that, such as how long the car will sit in traffic not moving and then start going again.

The manual and Hyundai's advertisement does a HORRIBLE job of differentiating the features here.

Yes, it is confusing. And Hyundai has made things worse. Watch the two official Hyundai Palisade videos below. Pay close attention to the shots of the fully-digital dashboard as they demonstrate the features.

The first video is about LFA (Lane-Following Assist). They very clearly state that it centers you in your lane. They also clearly explain how the little steering wheel icon is what indicates that LFA is enabled. And that it goes green when LFA is active, and white when it isn't. Watch carefully when they demonstrate that: the dashboard shows that HDA is also enabled (timestamps 1:10 and 1:28).

Now watch the second video about HDA (Highway Drive Assist). They state that it also helps with lane centering. And they explain the whole speed limit thing I described in my earlier post. But the dashboard at 1:43 looks almost identical as the one in the previous video (it actually isn't, but it's very similar). The lane-centering portion of this video explains literally the exact same thing as the previous video...

The manual also states that HDA does lane centering. But at the end of the HDA section, it refers you to the LFA section for more info on lane centering and steering, after giving a bunch of info on GPS and speed. Go figure...


So what to believe?

Personally, this is one case where I call BS on Hyundai. I think the marketing people who made these videos aren't very clear on what the systems do and it seems to me that HDA has to do with speed only, despite what that second video shows. I know from personal experience that LFA works without HDA - you get the exact same steering wheel icon and behavior. I happen to live near a highway that didn't have qualify for HDA until I updated the maps, so I have used LFA with and without HDA on that highway. I couldn't detect a change between LFA with and without HDA.

Maybe I'm wrong and HDA provides an extra level of lane centering and steering assist when HDA is enabled, even if I couldn't tell the difference. I certainly wished Hyundai clarified things. Maybe when they're finally done updating the manual and it shows up again on myhyundai.com.

LFA video:

HDA video:

 

[anthpalisade]

To answer the original question, no it can not be added. The drivers package includes the larger screen, HDA, Blue link (remote start and diagnostics from phone etc) GPS, Built in Nav, Inetrcom, etc. To my knowledge none of the 3 FACTORY options convenience, drivers, and Premium can be added by a dealer after. Never say never. I am sure it would be super pricy if it were remotely possible.

Hyundai already has the lane centering etc. The HDA as others have said is very similar to the existing functionality with mostly auto speed control. You kind of need the NAV and GPS to handle any level of autonomy beyond lane centering and smart cruise control to give the car situational awareness of where it is.

As a side note I only have the base SEL. I am very impressed with the lane centering and smart cruise control.

Long story short if you were not interested the other parts of drivers HDA as it currently functions itself does not seem to offer much more. Probably could later offer more autonomy if had it.

I do like the drivers package just did not want spend the combined around 4K for the trio of Convenience, Drivers, and Sunroof (the Trio need to be bought together to get the Drivers). Probably would have gone all in + Premium or considered the sister Kia in EX trim which offers a nice feature set.

 

[saxman242]

So I just did about 80 miles in traffic playing with hda turned on and off to try to identify what the actual differences are. I can say that in stop and go traffic there is a huge difference in how long the car will stay stopped then automatically restart. With hda turned off, the car very quickly calls for pressing the gas/pressing the cruise resume button to start again. Talking a few seconds of being stopped.

With hda turned on, the car will sit for significantly longer and automatically start going again without input. 30-45 seconds of being stopped before prompting to press the gas/cruise resume button.

 

[Eric2203]

So I just did about 80 miles in traffic playing with hda turned on and off to try to identify what the actual differences are. I can say that in stop and go traffic there is a huge difference in how long the car will stay stopped then automatically restart. With hda turned off, the car very quickly calls for pressing the gas/pressing the cruise resume button to start again. Talking a few seconds of being stopped.

With hda turned on, the car will sit for significantly longer and automatically start going again without input. 30-45 seconds of being stopped before prompting to press the gas/cruise resume button.

Interesting, considering it’s not even mentioned anywhere that HDA affects that.

When you say you had it turned off, did you disable the feature via the settings screen?

 

[saxman242]

Yah, although I have seen it referenced in other posts and such that it includes that, so this seemed to confirm. It does make sense that using this on highways in this manner would be consistent with the intent of an hda type feature though.

I did disable hda in the dash settings for the test. A better comparison would be against a vehicle without hda.

 

[anthpalisade]

I find Auto Off works well but there is quite a bit of variation when it happens. Sometimes within seconds of putting your foot on the break and other times not. Think some of it has to with engine/oil temp on colder days, but not that simple.

** Hey another difference Base SE and SEL come with a removable 5-6 inch whip antenna. Others come with Color integrated 3 inch shark fin antenna (gps, sat, radio). The former has to come off for mechanical car wash.

Wonder if they swap antennas as soon as go to Convenience package or only with Drivers package.

 

[Eric2203]

Yah, although I have seen it referenced in other posts and such that it includes that, so this seemed to confirm. It does make sense that using this on highways in this manner would be consistent with the intent of an hda type feature though.

I did disable hda in the dash settings for the test. A better comparison would be against a vehicle without hda.

I guess it would be.

Aside from the stop-and-go feature of the Smart Cruise Control, I still call BS on the steering until proven otherwise. The fact that their video explainer on LFA uses a car in HDA mode is my main reason for not believing that HDA does something different than LFA alone...

@anthpalisade: we were talking about the ability of the smart cruise control to bring the car to a full stop in traffic, and start driving automatically again. If you're stopped for longer than 3 seconds (I think that's the value I've seen documented), you're supposed to press the gas pedal or the cruise control's resume button to get going again. @saxman242 is saying that with HDA on, the car resumes driving by itself even if you've been stopped for more than 3 seconds (he's seeing 30-45s as per his post above). And that's not documented anywhere.

I think you're talking about the engine auto start/stop feature.

 

[anthpalisade]

Ahh yeah sorry. Yes resume in stop and go traffic does work without hda though also prompted with cruise control resume. Have not driven enough to do timing of a few seconds versus 30+ sitting in traffic.

HDA, GPS, Maps/Nav, Blue link would be more valuable for other automation.

Also over the air infotainment and or car updates i would imagine. Unless the car could leverage apple car play/ android/blue tooth for Data.

 

[saxman242]

Yah, I'm not convinced that there's a difference in steering assist with hda.

 

[Eric2203]

Also over the air infotainment and or car updates i would imagine. Unless the car could leverage apple car play/ android/blue tooth for Data.

For updates: allow the car to connect to a Wi-Fi network. For example, at home, I could let the car connect to my Wi-Fi network for updates. That way, Hyundai doesn't have to use their cellular modem and the car doesn't use the data bucket from my cell phone plan.

I realize this isn't an option for everyone.

 

[saxman242]

Yes resume in stop and go traffic does work without hda though also prompted with cruise control resume

Yes, it still does it without HDA. How long it takes before it is required is the question at hand. Compared to all the other cars I've owned with ACC systems, the palisade with hda will sit for significantly longer than any other before requiring input. It's also incredibly smooth and I love that you can adjust the sensitivity of it. It's probably the best ACC system I've ever used.

 

[Eric2203]

Yes, it still does it without HDA. How long it takes before it is required is the question at hand. Compared to all the other cars I've owned with ACC systems, the palisade with hda will sit for significantly longer than any other before requiring input. It's also incredibly smooth and I love that you can adjust the sensitivity of it. It's probably the best ACC system I've ever used.

Bringing this old thread back to life...

@saxman242 - Someone on other forum dug up a new tech paper on HDA which confirms that, with HDA on, the automatic stop & go functionality will resume driving up to 30s after the car stopped without intervention from the driver. Without HDA on, it's 3s, after which the driver has to manually resume by pressing the brake pedal or the cruise control resume button. That confirms your findings. The quote is: "SCC Stop & Go function pauses when the vehicle comes to a complete stop for more than three seconds. But HDA, which works only on highways free from various on-road variables, is active for nearly 30 seconds after coming to a full stop, freeing the driver from the fatigue of congested highways."

That paper has other interesting stuff. It does seem to imply that HDA uses the standard LFA functionality, without adding to it. It also talk about NSCC, which is navigation-based smart cruise control. If you read what NSCC does, it's basically automatic slowing down for curves, ramps, construction zones, and auto speed limit recognition. I do not believe we have this system on the Palisade in the US. But to be fair, this paper is heavily geared towards South Korea, so this may be a feature that exists over there. And to be clear: this is a feature that exists outside of HDA. HDA just makes use of it, like it makes use of LFA.

It also talks about how long they allow drivers to take their hands off the wheel. Looks like various countries are regulating that, based on that paper. I know it's about 30 to 45s on the Palisade in the US. I've seen someone report that, on the new 2020 Sonata, it depends on how curvy the road is, and that they've been able to not have their hands on the wheel for minutes at a time (in straight lines).

The paper is here. Interesting read if you have time: Understanding ADAS Technology: Convenience Features - Hyundai Motor Group TECH

 

[saxman242]

I know it's about 30 to 45s on the Palisade in the US

I do wonder how adaptive this is/what it looks for. I've had times I've been driving when I've counted and been shocked at how long I can go without my hands on the wheel (over a minute) and have had times where it has given the "hey dumbass, grab the wheel" warning after under 20 seconds.

If you haven't guessed by now, I spend way too much time on the highway commuting and have to find ways to keep myself entertained.



Great find btw.

 

[Eric2203]

I do wonder how adaptive this is/what it looks for. I've had times I've been driving when I've counted and been shocked at how long I can go without my hands on the wheel (over a minute) and have had times where it has given the "hey dumbass, grab the wheel" warning after under 20 seconds.

If you haven't guessed by now, I spend way too much time on the highway commuting and have to find ways to keep myself entertained.



Great find btw.

Could be. I haven't really tried taking my hands off the wheels on a long straight stretch of highway to see if it'll let me do it for longer. Maybe it does depend on the road, just like the new Sonata.

 

[anthpalisade]

Interesting link. Thanks. That said hands off wheels is dangerous on any driver assist system no matter how long "its allowed" The feature which CR has been lobbying with regulators and manufactures really should be standardized to a names they pushed for like "Active driving assistance" versus Autopilot (confusing if your not an actual airline pilot) or HDA, etc. I think what even my non optioned SEL does with Smart Cruise, breaking, and LKA is amazing....

I would never completely trust any current system with my life or my families. I am pleased to say the majority of the time (about 80 percent ) automation acts before I would or around the same time...

That said all these system are fallible no one should be lulled in a false sense of security that car knows better than the driver. The more complete systems that are Nav capable are really problematic because they can do so much you might really begin to trust it too much. You do not want to end up in the news as that person who died with driver assist doing the driving.

It is an interesting delta. Automation can reduce driver fatigue, but it also can cause you to trust and be sleepy because you're not having to do as much. There are plenty of videos if they can be trusted of sleeping Tesla owners at the wheel.

Best to think of it has co-pilot at best.

 

[saxman242]

That said hands off wheels is dangerous on any driver assist system no matter how long "its allowed"

I don't totally agree. Not paying attention and trusting it implicitly certainly is, but I'll often sit with my hands basically in my lap, but at the wheel, not touching it. Reduces fatigue on long drives, but I'm available to take over control immediately.